KEYBOARDS PRESENTATIONS - ARE THEY ALL MADE BY THUGS?

[♔Chello]

KEYBOARDS PRESENTATIONS - ARE THEY ALL MADE BY THUGS?

Never perceive a demo of a keyboard made by a famous performer as real and authentic.
I have good reason to point this out.
Examples:

The first time I was really fooled by such videos was when I bought the Roli Seaboard RISE 49.
There were many amazing videos that showed what was possible to do with this.
After installing it, it turned out completely impossible to without further ado do what was demonstrated - everything depended on external software - which was not made ready in advance by the manufacturer.
The keys also turned out to be sticky to the fingers, plus the design of these was perceived as inappropriate - it was like having to learn to play again in a new way.

The next case was the Deebach MAX Plus, where a (hidden) pedal was used to achieve effects.

This was followed by Genos, which is a rough example of how buyers can be tricked around - their own settings were used several times during the demonstrations.
When buying Genos, I experienced that none of what was demonstrated could be done, because they had used voices that are not pre-installed, but must be purchased separately.

Then followed the Medeli AKX10, which is also a very good example of how buyers can be led to believe that the sounds are as good as Yamaha`s - I have tested all the sounds, and all were absolutely useless.

The latest example is Korg Nautilus - many of the demos play with real audio human voices, while no SETS, Combinations or Programs have this.
In general, it is also impossible to play the way they do, because this is not programmed on the Nautilus you buy.


The doctrine of the above must be that you should never buy something that is based solely on the statements and demos of famous performers, because these are probably all bought and paid for by the producers.

[⚖whitecolin1]

Unfortunately  giving honest demonstrations and reviews are following the rest of the world all smoke and mirrors.
We are being treated like idiots, even their top demonstrators are using midi files to enhance styles and as you say 
voices that aren`t available without further purchase.
Put a top of range mixer and sound system and of course they sound great.
How many times have i heard mine doesn`t sound like that.
Then you get into the people selling styles and midi, it war and peace to link them together.
Also they seem to be getting lazy in the way they produce them.
I have examples where part of the ots isnt linked up correctly and out of tune. And the audio link is so poor I could of done it better myself.
So what happens next is,keyboard players who are at largely reluctant to pay for material as they troll poor sites for material.
There is of course hard work done by individuals like yourself which are targeted at specific models.
But of course they dont work on all keyboards, in the same fashion, as ive found out when ive done conversions from korg to yamaha.
So who do we turn too Yamaha they couldn`t care less about the customer. EMC style works seem to have gone backwards in how they produce 
styles.
Their is a massive niche if someone came out with something new 

Anyway rant over

[♔Chello]

@Colin

Thank you for your complementary comment.
This industry has developed negatively worse with each passing year, and only models that are several years old (typically from the period up to about 2005 for Yamaha and 2012 for Korg) are professionally programmed.

Models produced in the years after this have become worse and worse programmed - there is a huge difference between Tyros1 and Tyros4, where Tyros1 was by far the best programmed.
The same can be said about Korg, but Korg has always been better at programming - Pa3X was very well programmed, while Pa4X represented a new negative era for Korg.
A good example of incompetent functions in Pa4X is the Midi to Style function, which in not a single case is able to convert a style without serious errors and omissions, in addition to setting certain requirements for possible midi format used.

EMC Song to Style also can not convert correctly (not a single time out of more than 10,000 I have tried), but the program allows almost all midi formats, and if you know how, you can correct all errors manually.
Conversion of styles also gives in many cases hopeless results, and for styles there is no possibility of manual correction.
Anyone who wants to can try to convert from Tyros5 to Korg Pa3X, and experience all the shortcomings these styles get - not a single one will be usable.


What about the future?
Arius and I want a new type of keyboard:
A keyboard that consists of a synth and an arranger, preferably with two separate screens, which can display synth in one, and arranger in the other, plus styles in one and sounds in the other.

Such a model is unlikely to see the light of day. Ever...

[⚖musicalmemoriesuk]

I think with a lot of music shops that you can walk in an try products are closing most of peoples purchases are a stab in the dark. I heavily research what I’m going to or would like to purchase but at the end of the day it’s what you the end user thinks of a product. As the saying goes what is one man’s muck could be another man’s money.

Problems with alot of demos is usually because they think arranger keyboards are aimed at an older audience most of the demos are geared towards that age group.

It also comes down to how much time and effort the end user is prepared to work on a keyboard eg do they just want to sit and play or spend time digging deeper. 

Just my thoughts and observations on this topic.

[✪graham]

What puzzles me is that keyboards out of the box never sound as good as the demonstrator uses.
It is understood that it is good to have a basic starting point for owners to make their own adjustments, but come on...If you were wanting to sell a product you would want the buyer to see/hear it at it's best !!!.
All manufacturers are guilty of this.

[⚖Fikke]

You should pay close attention when you see a video of a keyboard demonstration or the introduction of a new keyboard.
The first thing that demonstrator does is plug in a USB. Just out and about, they don't even hide it. I attended a demo of Peter Baartmans and Michel Voncken several times. When they step away from their keyboard, the first thing they do is quickly pull the stick out of the keyboard.
Everything on that stick is prepared material from Yamaha. They then practice those songs until they know everything perfectly by heart and then they leave. You should also keep an eye out if you have the chance to attend a few demonstrations in a few weeks. Their repertoire is always the same. Even the jokes they make with the audience are identical.
I must say that those gentlemen can play great even without USB.
But everything you hear on a demo is prepared and is not in the device you will buy. I have a bit of a hard time with that myself because in fact you are defrauding your customers.

[♔Chello]

@Louis

Thanks for your comment.
I well remember that I noticed exactly what you describe with the mentioned case.

I also remember the shock I got when I tested near-field samples with piano on my Genos just like Baartmann did - NONE of the installed pianos gave this effect, simply because they are not on Genos.
All of these near-field samples are originally found on Kronos and Nautilus, however.

[⚖Fikke]

A large part of those voices are indeed on the keyboard, but what they don't say is that they have all been edited. We can get a lot of those sounds after a lot of cursing, blood sweat and tears and hours of tuning. For someone who has never done that, it's hopeless.

Take, for example, the grand piano in the genos. After some fiddling with the settings and effects, it sounds completely different. It's almost a specialty in itself. Not to mention all the patience you have to have because it's constantly turning buttons and trying. You can, so to speak, buy good voices for a few euros at cms sounddesign from Germany. That saves you a lot of frustration and the sound of cms is perfect.