DEVELOPMENT OF KEYBOARDS OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS - HAVE THEY REALLY GOT BETTER ?

[♔Chello]

DEVELOPMENT OF KEYBOARDS OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS - HAVE THEY REALLY GOT BETTER ?
At the risk of repeating myself; but I feel the question is justified.

YAMAHA:
Let's start with the DGX-620 that I bought in 2007.
This had the best piano-weighted keybed I've tried to date; even better than Kronos with its RH3 keybed..!
The piano sounds were also better than other Yammodellers (better than Genos..!), and everything was very well mixed together. All sounds were consistently good.

The DGX-670 (2022) had a significantly worse keybed than the DGX-620 and somewhat worse piano sounds, but the quality of everything else was higher than that of any other models - at least as good as the Genos.

The Tyros1 that I bought in 2008 had synth-weighted keys about as good as the OASYS (it also makes less mechanical noise), although the construction is simpler. The keys are only 21 mm wide, which makes it incredibly easy to play - you hit the chords more precisely and effortlessly.
Generally very good and open sound, good instruments, pads and OTS and good, stable mixing.

I have not tested Tyros2 and Tyros3, but I know that both have a worse keybed than T1, with T2 being the best of the two.

Tyros4 probably had the same keybed as T3, and was significantly worse than T1's, but still good and easy to play.
The sounds were very good, but the mixing was lousy with different levels on all instruments, pads and OTS. OTS was horribly misaligned.

Tyros5 61 had a worse keybed (more weighted keys) than T4, had worse instruments, different levels and bad adaptation with OTS.

Genos1 had the best keybed apart from Tyros1 and DGX-620 which were significantly better.
Quality keybed, but heavier to play on with standard width keys.
The sound quality could be very good (best of all), but all too terribly badly mixed with extremely poor OTS compositions and levels.


KORG:
My first Korg was the Pa800 (2007), which had a very good keybed (about the same as the Pa1X 61), had very good sounds and was perfectly mixed with the best preset microphone setup of all time.

I also bought the Pa1X 61, but never got to test this as it was broken in transit. But I took care of the keybed, which is the best of the entire PaX series.

The Pa2X 76 (2021) was pretty much as good as the Pa800, but had a slightly worse keybed.

Pa3X 61 (2014) was slightly worse than Pa800 in all areas, but the keybed was significantly worse than Pa800 and Pa2X 76 with its semi-weighing.

Pa4X 61 (2018) was slightly better than Pa3X, but worse than Pa800, with the same keybed as Pa3X.

The Kronos2 73 (2020) is in a class of its own with a stunning piano-weighted keybed and stunning sounds that are mixed more professionally than anything else.

The Pa5X 76 outclasses all Korg models in terms of sound (close to the Kronos), is extremely professionally mixed and has the second best synth keybed, while the Pa1X 61 has the best.


Conclusion..?

This summary should be able to provide a solid basis for claiming that the newest and most expensive is not necessarily the best.

My favorites among the Yamaha are the Tyros1 and DGX-670, while the Korg consists of the Pa800, Pa2X 76 and Pa5X 76 with the Kronos2 73 at the top.


Finally, I would like to mention a keyboard that sonically blows everyone away - including the Kronos:
Deebach MAX Plus (actually Medeli A1000..!) Bought 2019.

This should be able to provide a basis for asking a serious question about the importance (and correctness) of hardware playing a decisive role for achievable sound quality.
The Medeli A-1000 cost only a few hundred Euros, and consisted of a very simple chassis with associated cheap hardware that cost almost nothing to produce.

Nevertheless, the sound quality of many sounds was so good that even Kronos was overrun.
The term VELOCITY has never had such a profound impact.


Think about this, people !

[⚖whitecolin1]

There`s a lot of truth in what you say, why do they mess about with key beds if they are worse than their predecessor ?

Why are glaring issues not resolved ? 

I now know what you were saying about the Genos not processing previous styles correctly, in fact the G2styles are missing most effects and reverb.

Its down to money in my opinion, maximize profit with the least amount of investment.

One dealer has sold nearly 100 G2 But as of today you cannot download the previous expansion packs and G1 bugs are present on G2 ?

The forums are littered with people leaving Yamaha and moving to Korg so hopefully Korg do some updates they promised.

The u tube video with the reface connected to the cvp900 shows how good the sounds can be on the orga, and that`s £250
yet no where to be seen on the latest flagship.

[♝thomas750]

There`s a lot of truth in what you say, why do they mess about with key beds if they are worse than their predecessor ?

Why are glaring issues not resolved ? 

I now know what you were saying about the Genos not processing previous styles correctly, in fact the G2styles are missing most effects and reverb.

Its down to money in my opinion, maximize profit with the least amount of investment.

One dealer has sold nearly 100 G2 But as of today you cannot download the previous expansion packs and G1 bugs are present on G2 ?

The forums are littered with people leaving Yamaha and moving to Korg so hopefully Korg do some updates they promised.

The u tube video with the reface connected to the cvp900 shows how good the sounds can be on the orga, and that`s £250
yet no where to be seen on the latest flagship.

her you can download genos 1 for genos 2
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/updates..._pack.html

Thomas

[⚖musicalmemoriesuk]

Interesting reading this post.

How many of you have older keyboards sitting in a corner collecting dust ?

Do you ever revisit them and this well actually it sounds great?

Yes technology advances, but whilst an older keyboard such as the tyros1 won’t have the sounds of the Genos 2 or Pa5x.

How close could you get a Tyros 1 to sound like a Genos 2 or Pa5x ?

Maybe with the right use of effects or editing it would be possible?

[RikW]

Interesting to read your views of the various 'keybeds' Chello. I have similar fond memories of the Pa1X (Korg) and also the PSR9000Pro (Yamaha). The 9000Pro seemed 'easier' to play, while the Pa1X felt more alive.

I played piano for many years before I tried an organ or keyboard. The tracker action simple 2 manual pipe organ I played was good (accurate and responsive), the local church organ I practiced on was electro-pneumatic and was ageing noticeably. The draught chilled your fingers but they could rest a while waiting for the controls to sound the pipes!

The Pa4X 76 was good, but the 5X 88 seems to deliver what I want now. Somehow the piano-weighted keys seem less tiring to play, while insisting on accurate fingering?

[♔Chello]

Interesting to read your views of the various 'keybeds' Chello. I have similar fond memories of the Pa1X (Korg) and also the PSR9000Pro (Yamaha). The 9000Pro seemed 'easier' to play, while the Pa1X felt more alive.

I played piano for many years before I tried an organ or keyboard. The tracker action simple 2 manual pipe organ I played was good (accurate and responsive), the local church organ I practiced on was electro-pneumatic and was ageing noticeably. The draught chilled your fingers but they could rest a while waiting for the controls to sound the pipes!

The Pa4X 76 was good, but the 5X 88 seems to deliver what I want now. Somehow the piano-weighted keys seem less tiring to play, while insisting on accurate fingering?

Thanks for an interesting feedback.
We have largely the same experiences; I have also tried the 9000 Pro and the Pa1X, and have the same opinion.

In addition, I have played various acoustic pianos, electric organs as well as some church organs, and understand very well what you mean by waiting for the controls to sound the pipes.

The Pa5X 88 uses RH3 keys like the Kronos - I've had the Kronos 73 which had the same keys and this is a fantastic keybed, which is admittedly something special as it insists on precise fingering.

This is repeated on all Korg keybeds; you somehow have to press down all the keys in a chord at the same time, otherwise the wrong chord may occur.

No other brand is like this.

[RikW]

Interesting to read your views of the various 'keybeds' Chello. I have similar fond memories of the Pa1X (Korg) and also the PSR9000Pro (Yamaha). The 9000Pro seemed 'easier' to play, while the Pa1X felt more alive.

I played piano for many years before I tried an organ or keyboard. The tracker action simple 2 manual pipe organ I played was good (accurate and responsive), the local church organ I practiced on was electro-pneumatic and was ageing noticeably. The draught chilled your fingers but they could rest a while waiting for the controls to sound the pipes!

The Pa4X 76 was good, but the 5X 88 seems to deliver what I want now. Somehow the piano-weighted keys seem less tiring to play, while insisting on accurate fingering?

Thanks for an interesting feedback.
We have largely the same experiences; I have also tried the 9000 Pro and the Pa1X, and have the same opinion.

In addition, I have played various acoustic pianos, electric organs as well as some church organs, and understand very well what you mean by waiting for the controls to sound the pipes.

The Pa5X 88 uses RH3 keys like the Kronos - I've had the Kronos 73 which had the same keys and this is a fantastic keybed, which is admittedly something special as it insists on precise fingering.

This is repeated on all Korg keybeds; you somehow have to press down all the keys in a chord at the same time, otherwise the wrong chord may occur.

No other brand is like this.

Chello - your points about the RH3 keys on the Pa5X 88 - agreed. 

I didn't realise the Kronos 73 had fully weighted keys - that's something for me to file away for the future, thank you.

[♔Chello]

Chello - your points about the RH3 keys on the Pa5X 88 - agreed. 

I didn't realise the Kronos 73 had fully weighted keys - that's something for me to file away for the future, thank you.

rik
Yes; it is quite unusual for a 73 key keybed to have RH3 keys - the normal would have been synth-weighted.

If the keys on the Pa5X 88 are exactly the same variant of RH3 as those on the Kronos 73, I should have bought this instead, because these keys are far better than the ones on the Pa5X 76.

In any case, I will definitely buy a Kronos 73 again.